PROFILE OF RUNNER
A. Name, age, city and state, how long lived there?
Joe Plassmann, Tucson AZ, 46, in Tucson for 24 years.
B. Place of birth, where did you grow up, high school, college, military, other?
Born in Santa Fe, NM. Grew up in Los Alamos, NM, NMSU Computer Science.C. Other than running – hobbies, interests, pets, kids, current employment?
Kids, home and apartment repair. I work at the University of Arizona as an IT Manager, managing systems for PIRL (the Planetary Image Research Laboratory) and HiRISE (High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment).D. Favorite distance to run or race on trail and on the road?
Any, but generally prefer longer and on trails.
E. Favorite race course or event?
I have a soft spot for any loosely organized running event, racing or not. It’s just great to hang out with other runners; they tend to be such cool people.F. Favorite Tucson area trail to train, run, hike?
Bear Canyon Loop is da Bomb.G. Favorite vacation destination?
Places where it’s cooler than Tucson in the summertime. Sometimes way cooler. H. Favorite post-race/run food, drink and activity, ie. hot tub, ice cold river soak, etc?
I especially enjoy post-Ultra fridge surfing. I already love food, but that focused state of nutrition deficit correction is such an intense experience - I really enjoy it. It seems to become my mission after every long run to attempt to consume all caloric content in the house. Maybe it’s because I can’t eat turkey at Thanksgiving, I don’t know.I. Pet Peeves?
Negative people.J. Current book you are reading or favorite author?
I like to read a lot of things, right now I’m reading a lot of young adult books that my 11 year old son has read and wants me to read too. There’s a lot of fantastic stuff out there for pre-teens now, I sort of feel like I need to do it to stay in touch with him. Also, we’re working through the “classics” together, Tolkien, things like that. For myself, I recently read a massive tome called the “Bastard Battalion”, written about the 83rd CMB (my Dad’s unit) in WWII. Also a few books on Autism to see if they can help me figure out my 13 year old. K. Favorite quote or saying to live by?
Run! this ain’t no walking club!L. Person you look up to, emulate, hero?
Gandhi. How someone like him could convince an entire nation to eschew violence and effect incredible social change under such adversity is such an amazing story. Seeing those ideals being taken to heart and being used even today gives me hope for us as a species.N. What has been your worst running injury?
On the scale of maximum awfulness, it has to be plantar fasciitis. A few years ago I had sciatica aggravated by a ruptured disk, which required surgery. The injury management, surgery and recovery for the sciatica took a long time, over 2 years, but for some reason the journey, even though the pain was often intense, was mostly positive. I learned a lot about myself and how to take care of myself during that time. The PF however, was just terrible. I couldn’t run a step for 6 months, and that, compounded with other issues, just kept me depressed for months.O. If you could no longer run or lost the use of your legs what sport or activity would you pursue?
I suppose swimming and/or hand cycling to stay in shape. Drag racing or downhill skiing on one of those ski sleds would probably have to do it, or maybe I could become the first paraplegic BASE jumper. TA: Hey Joe, thanks for taking the time to meet with me and talk.
Joe: You’re welcome. The Meet Me at Maynard’s event is a great place to get together.
TA: From looking at your profile, your job at the UofA sounds very interesting. Do you actually see the photos of Mars? Have you found any good trails to run or cool mountains to climb?
Joe: Absolutely! It’s amazing. We do three dimensional elevation models too. There are some places that are spectacular. If there was oxygen it would be a great place to run.
TA: So you see stuff that piques the imagination?
Joe: Oh yeah, spectacular! If you’re into geology Mars is a fantastic place.
TA: Do you ever see anything that looks like a trail, even a gully that could be traveled? Something that might make you take a second look?
Joe: The only things we see are manmade; the rover tracks. Eventually the wind blows away the tracks. There’s a friend of mine that actually studies that process.
TA: How long have you been in this field?
Joe: I followed my girlfriend down here in 1988. I had originally planned to go to graduate school but then I realized I didn’t want to go to school anymore so I put my name in at the University and got hired at the planetary lab. I have been there ever since. Every time I think about going back to school I just don’t feel like studying anymore.
TA: Oh, I don’t blame you. It took me 10 years to finish my Bachelor’s and I have no interest in studying anymore either.
Joe: I wish I did but I just can’t fathom the thought of sitting down and taking tests. My last year in college drove me nuts; I just didn’t want to do it anymore.
TA: Books cost way too much anyway. So I see that you like to go to cooler places than Tucson. What activities do you enjoy doing at those destinations?
Joe: A friend of mine is into whitewater and sea kayaking. Several years ago we started to go to Alaska every year for a couple of weeks. Once we’re there we look at a map and say, “Where would be a cool place to go?” And then figure out a way to get there.
TA: Trish and I sea kayaked off the coast of Kauai. It was a great experience. Are the trips pretty strenuous or are you just looking at the scenery?
Joe: They’re pretty strenuous. The guy I go with is a type A personality. I’ve been on whitewater trips with him before; he’s a class V whitewater kayaker and I’m maybe class III. He’s destination oriented, like let’s go see that glacier.
TA: So there’s an endurance aspect involved?
Joe: Yeah, it’s like; let’s look at a map and find the coolest way to get there. The longest trips are about a week and a half. We can usually find a Forest Service cabin to rent and take a water taxi to get there. So we stay in the cabin which is great because it rains all of the time. It’s like a base camp but we do bring overnight gear and stay out one or two nights. Summertime in Alaska…it never gets dark, so you can paddle 20 hours a day.
TA: Man that sounds great!
Joe: We’re going up this year to see the dogsled races in a couple weeks. It’s a family thing.
TA: Is that the Iditarod?
Joe: Yes. It turns out they have a big party a week before the race starts; they do all sorts of shorter dogsled races. A friend of ours in Anchorage is putting us up, just the family. It should be a good time.
TA: Well those sound like great things to do when it’s too hot here. Do you run in Tucson throughout the summer?
Joe: I sort of learned the first few years I was out here that I really just suffered during the summertime. It was so awful. Then I realized I just needed to confront it. I went out for a run one day in 110 degree heat in the middle of the day. I suffered horribly and got home and realized that it can’t get any worse than that. So when it’s 106 it’s better; at least it’s not 110.
TA: You know, you’re right. The biggest problem I had with summer running was the snakes. I didn’t run trails all summer the first couple years I lived here.
Joe: Well you know, snakes don’t want to bite you. They want to stay out of your way; you’re too big to eat and you’re scary. You have to learn how to give them space. They live here, we’re just passing through.
TA: No kidding. Let’s talk about your recent Plantar Fasciitis injury. Have you ever experienced that before?
Joe: I’ve never had it before; I had no idea what it was. It was last June; I thought I bruised my foot. Since I was running in floppy feet (VFFs) all of the time then I thought I just stepped on a rock. It hurt between the heel and the arch.
TA: Sure, that’s what it feels like initially.
Joe: Eventually it never went away. Every time I walked on it I could feel it. It never healed. Finally I went to the massage therapist and she pointed out that I had Plantar Fasciitis. Once she told me what it was then it was totally obvious.
TA: I’ve had Plantar Fasciitis before and know that it can take several months to get past it. How did you stay active?
Joe: I didn’t. My mother passed away around the same time and between me and my sister taking care of her it was a very stressful experience. After that was over with I had lost interest in doing anything for a long time. I took up beer drinking as an activity.
TA: How did you keep your weight in check?
Joe: I gained a little bit. I gained a pretty good beer gut which I still have some of. My son likes to poke me, “Dad…you’ve got something going there.”
TA: HaHaHa…Beer guts at our age are very problematic and hard to get rid of. After you got past the injury, how long did it take you to feel good about your fitness?
Joe: I’m still getting there. I started running in December. It just feels so good to run. I don’t even care. I’m just happy to be able to run.
TA: Honestly, your recent 3:00 Bear Canyon loop in VFFs is very respectable. It doesn’t seem like you lost that much. Has the comeback been painful?
Joe: It always feels good to run no matter how bad of shape I’m in or how much it hurts. I’ve been in excruciating pain but the problem is that it just feels so good to run that even when it hurts it feels good. I would go home and lay down on the floor and couldn’t even get up.
It’s so funny when people say, “God, the run I had today just sucked!” You know, I’ve never had a run that sucked. I’ve had runs that really, really hurt. I was in so much pain that all I wanted to do is lie down. Still, every time I got home I never said to myself…I’m not happy that I ran today.
TA: That’s a great mentality.
Joe: It’s the right attitude to have. People that hate running, I don’t understand it.
TA: When did you first call yourself a runner?
Joe: I own an apartment complex and have had some really cool tenants over the years. I used to ride mountain bike a lot and at the time I had a tenant I used to mountain bike with and he said, “Oh you’re tall and skinny, you ought to be a roadie.” So he got set me up with a nice road bike and I started road riding for a few years. Then I had another tenant who was a runner that went to The Workout Group (WOG) and he said, “You’re tall and skinny, you should be a runner.” So he dragged me out to WOG and I started running…in the mid-late 90s. Then I had an Australian friend of mine that was a tri-athlete, also an extremely good runner, Matt Chamberlain. He wanted to go up to Colorado and do the Boulder 5430 Ironman. His wife told him there was absolutely no way he was going to drive up there, do an Ironman and drive all the way back to Tucson. So I volunteered to drive for him. I went up there and I saw everyone swimming around the lake, then went out for a bike ride and then a run and I said…you know, all I need to do is learn how to swim.
TA: So you picked up the Triathlon, did you ever do an Ironman?
Joe: The farthest I had ever done was the half-Ironman. There might still be an Ironman in the future somewhere. Ironman takes a lot of work and time.
TA: How about trail running, how did you get there?
Joe: Trail running is Jerry Riddick’s fault. He started showing up at WOG and said, “You know, there’s this trail running group.” It sounded interesting. My first run was Bear Canyon. I was friends with Tom Gormley so I decided to run with him. He showed up hung-over, he was sweating and pale. We made it to the bathroom before the bridge leading to the trailhead and he turned and looked at me and said, “Joe, I’ve got to stop.” I could hear him in there throwing up (Raaalph noises). He came back out and caught up to me again and took off; I never saw him again.
TA: HAHAHA
Joe: And then I thought…yeah, these trail runners, these guys are tough. I found the Trail Runners to be a cool set of people to hang out with; very dedicated, there to have fun and not pretentious at all. I felt like I was at home.
TA: How did you get started running in the Vibram Five Fingers (VFFs)?
Joe: I had sciatica really bad about three or four years ago to the point that I couldn’t even sit down. I had to get a special chair at work. Nobody could figure it out for a long time. One doctor prescribed Vicodin; another therapist said something was wrong with my piriformis. After that there was nothing else to try. It took months and months to figure out the problem. It turned out to be a ruptured disc. I got cortisone for that which worked. I found a surgeon who performed a laminectomy. He was really cool, he said afterwards, “Go and run as much as you want and in 20 years come back.”
There’s still a lot of physical abuse going on in trail running and certain endurance sports. I was seeing a massage therapist and learning how to take care of myself. I started reading about more natural running styles and one of the things I realized I did was a lot of heel striking. I started working on that and then wandered into the Running Shop one day and found the Vibrams and thought…that looks pretty cool.
A friend of mine would actually do all of her warm-up barefoot and then put shoes on for the run. I did that with her. Then of course after being seen wearing VFFs everyone would ask me if I had read Born To Run. I had no idea what they were talking about. All I knew was that it felt good.
TA: So right from the start you went out and used them every day?
Joe: What I did was go out to WOG and do the warm-up and the strides in VFFs then I would switch out to regular shoes for the rest of the workout. After six months I put the Vibrams on and never took them off.
TA: How do they work for you on the trail?
Joe: I keep thinking I wish could still wear shoes because running fast downhill in VFFs isn’t possible.
TA: What do you think about some of the other models that shoe companies like New Balance are coming out with now; some even have rock plates?
Joe: I bought a pair of the NB Minimus and couldn’t get used to them. It was one of the older models before the zero toe-to-heel drop. I also bought a pair of the Merrill Trail Gloves and I liked the way they feel but they’re the shoes I got Plantar Fasciitis in.
TA: Why do you think that happened?
Joe: I’m not sure. I’m always trying to figure out a way to run faster downhill. The Trail Glove gave me better toe protection. I didn’t change my mileage at all; probably 55-60 miles per week in the VFFs. It was just a few weeks later I started getting the pain. The Merrill’s are a very snug shoe; maybe some kind of circulation problem caused the problem.
TA: From the times you are running on the trails in Tucson it doesn’t appear that you are short-stepping it. Do you have problems with foot bruising?
Joe: I’ve never bruised my feet. I certainly get tired. I step on sharp rocks all the time but have never bruised my feet.
TA: You must have some tough feet.
Joe: I was talking to a guy who was ex-Navy and he said when the Vibrams first came out they gave them to the Seals and some of the guys really loved them. They used them on their missions. What they noticed is that everyone that really liked them were skinny guys.
TA: Interesting. I see you ran Jemez 50-mile a couple of years ago. Did you run that race in VFFs?
Joe: I did not; I had not totally converted yet. I wore INOV-8s. They felt good. I was out there 14 and a half hours. The race really trashed me. I was not prepared for the altitude. Four points on the course are over 10,000 feet. I thought growing up in Los Alamos would have helped. You just can’t go from 2400 feet in Tucson and then the next day run over 10,000.
TA: Last year you did Old Pueblo 50-mile in the VFFs, how did that go?
Joe: There are two sections, the backside of Gunsight Pass and past the 33-mile aid there is some really rocky downhill. I just picked my way through that stuff.
TA: How about the next day after the race, any calf tightness or Achilles tenderness?
Joe: No, just that I kicked a rock on that second section and lost a toenail. I was really concerned I wouldn’t be able to do the distance. I had trail shoes at the 33 aid station just in case and opted not to use them.
TA: I heard you say you can’t run in normal shoes anymore?
Joe: I’m so used to feeling the ground. Every time I put shoes on I feel like I’m walking on sponges. It doesn’t feel right.
TA: How do your road training times compare from shoes to VFFs?
Joe: I feel faster and stronger. I don’t race that much. I haven’t really tracked my times. I don’t worry about it too much. The last thing I want to do is worry about my time especially at my age.
TA: What kind of running related goals do you have for the future?
Joe: I think a lot about the 100. My wife wants me to run Lean Horse. Her family is from South Dakota and it would be a great excuse for her to get back to the Black Hills area. If figure is she’s into it then I should be thinking about it.
TA: I totally agree. Will you stick with the Vibram plan?
Joe: I would like to find a good minimal shoe that works well on the trail. I don’t think the Vibram is the shoe for the 100; maybe something from New Balance. I just got a pair of the VFF Trek Sport with the synthetic upper and they’ve been working pretty well on the last few trails although they do not give as much protection as the leather one. There were a couple times I ended up with a cactus spine in the side of my foot.
TA: Are you actually wearing out the VFFs, you know, getting holes in them?
Joe: Yeah, it takes awhile. I put over a 1,000 miles on my original pair of KSOs.
TA: I’ve got over 500 miles on my Bikilas and holes in the toes. Talk about some accomplishments that you are most proud of.
Joe: Finishing my first 50 mile race at Old Pueblo. It was really awesome to know that I can run 50 miles. I used to think people that ran marathons were incredible. It’s impossible to wrap your brain around going twice as far until you do it. In the beginning I was terrified. So what I did was tell myself that I’ll just run half of it and see how that feels. After 25 miles I halved it again so I only had to run 12.5 miles and then after that I only had to run 6 and a quarter. Kind of like Zeno’s Paradox; just keep chopping it up. Don’t think about the whole distance, think about half the distance.
TA: Did you ever finish the marathon before going to the ultra distance?
Joe: My first long distance race was a 50K. A friend of mine in Oregon back from my climbing days, he had gotten into ultra running. He wanted to me do this run in Oregon called the SOB – Siskiyou Out Back. He would call me every week or so and bug me about it. Finally he irritated me so much I signed up for it and then I beat him by 25 minutes.
I did a road marathon the next year at Tucson.
TA: What kind of advice can you give to a newer trail or ultra runner?
Joe: You have to have fun being a runner, if running isn’t fun then ultra-running is not for you. If you’re out there beating yourself up and you get home and life sucks then it’s not for you. I get such joy out of running. It feels so good.
TA: What’s the best advice that you have been given?
Joe: The best training advice I received is from Matt Chamberlain. He said you have to run the distance of your race in training over a 48-hour period. So if you’re doing a 50-mile race then in training you should go out on Saturday and run 30 miles and then on Sunday run for 20 miles. Last year I had a good race at Old Pueblo. I did one of the OP training runs on Saturday and then the next day did Tanque Verde Loop. I was so trashed afterwards but it was the perfect set-up.
TA: Very good advice. Last question, what is the meaning of life?
Joe: We’re only here for a short while, take advantage of the time that’s been given to you. If you find yourself sitting and staring at the boob tube you’re doing something wrong.
TA: That sums it up pretty good Joe. Thanks for letting me get into the mind of Joe Plassmann.
Joe: You’re welcome, it was fun.
I really enjoy reading your blog and interviews! Good stuff.
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