Profile and Interview with Julie; Running as Long as I Can

What follows is the transcript of a discussion I had recently with a female trail runner I met in 1995. I remember the first time I saw Julie coming around a bend on a hot dusty trail in July of 1994 somewhere in Sabino Canyon. I was on my way to getting lost on one of my first trail runs in Tucson. I didn't actually meet Julie until about a year and a half later on my first TTR run. The following interview provides some very sound advice that has changed very little over time; namely, never regret where you've been, live for the moment, and run as long as you can.

PROFILE OF RUNNER:

A.  Name, age, city and state, how long lived there? Julie (known by many names), 50+ years old.  Been in Tucson 33 years.

B.  Place of birth, where did you grow up, high school, college, military, other? Phoenix, attended the University of Arizona

C.  Other than running – hobbies, interests, pets, kids, current employment?  Currently employed and lately haven’t had a lot of time for running, let alone any other activities.  I am trying to learn to play the ukulele but haven’t had much time for that either.

D.  Favorite distance to run or race on trail and on the road?  100 milers are definitely my favorite but I haven’t done that distance for a few years now.

E.  Favorite race course or event?  That’s a hard one.  There are so many great runs and I’ve been running ultras for almost 25 years, it’s hard to narrow down to one.  I love running in Colorado and Utah though.

F.  Favorite Tucson area trail to train, run, hike?  Catalinas – I have a number of routes where I train.  I have a special tie to the Catalinas.  My great grandfather rode the trails on his mule in the early 1900s and was said to have known the Catalinas better than anyone at that time.

G.  Favorite post-race/run food, drink and activity, ie. hot tub, ice cold river soak, etc?  I like to sit down and get off my feet.  Sleeping is good too.

H.  Favorite vacation destination?  Grand Canyon.  I never get tired of going there.

I.  Pet Peeves?  People running on my heels.  I like my space.

J.  Current book you are reading or favorite author?  Currently reading “Quiet” by  Susan Cain.  Also recently read,  “Death Clouds on Mt Baldy” about the boy scouts that died on Mt. Wrightson.

K.  Favorite quote or saying to live by?  My personal philosophy is to never look back.  Don’t regret decisions you make or things you can’t do anymore.  Live in the moment.

L.  Personal hero or someone you look up to, emulate? My husband is one of the toughest people I know.  He finished Wasatch 100 on his 4^th attempt with bad feet on sheer guts.  His perseverance astounds me.  When I get tired or whiney I think about what he did.  I have a lot of respect for Jerry Riddick who sacrificed his Leadville 100 run to wait for me when my pacer dropped.  I finished the Leadville that year as a result of his unselfishness.  My current running buddies, Tonja and Christy, have a lot of qualities I admire.

M.  What has been your worst running injury?  Calcaneous stress fracture

TA:  Thanks for inviting me over to your home and taking the time to talk. You have a great view of the mountains here.

Julie:  That’s one reason we moved here. I love the Catalinas. My great-grand father used to ride his mule into the Catalinas around the turn of the century. He would check the UofA instruments.

TA:  What routes did he use?

Julie:  I believe one of the routes was up Box Camp and another route was through Prison Camp from Soldier Trail. He references Sycamore Reservoir in his diary coming up from Sabino.

TA:  Have you ever discovered any old routes that are too obscure to use anymore?

Julie:  Not out there. We went hiking on Brush Corral Trail in December. I read an article reprinted in the paper about a phoneline going into Spud Rock Station and Brush Corral. We’ve always seen the phoneline going up to Bigelow. I didn’t realize there was one on the eastside up toward Reddington. We hiked up there and looked for it. After a while we actually found it along with an old broken insulator. It was interesting to still see a telegraph wire from all those years ago.

TA:  Cool. Do you know how Spud Rock got its name?

Julie:  I may have heard the story but don’t remember…

TA:  I always thought it was because the rock looked like a potato. Around 1890 a German man moved up into the Rincon’s and grew potatoes near that site.

Julie:  That’s funny! I would have never guessed that.

TA:  Me neither.  Let’s talk about how you became a runner. How old were you when you started running?

Julie:  I ran a little in college just for fun, no competing. It wasn’t until I got out of college and took a job in California. I didn’t know anybody there. It was kind of during the running boom. I was bored so I started running. My whole goal was to get to three miles without stopping. It took months and months, probably 4-6 months. I would run a mile and stop. I had a hard time breathing.

TA:  How many days per week did you do this?

Julie:  Maybe four days. I couldn’t do it without stopping. I finally got there. I went to work and told someone and the first thing they said was, “How fast did you run?” I didn’t know; I didn’t have a clue. So the next time I went out I timed myself. All I had was a dress watch. I had no idea about pace, no idea what was fast or slow. I was running in the old Nike shoes; they were completely flat. So I went into work and they asked, “What time did you run?” And I said, “21 minutes.”

     “Oh no, you didn’t run that.”

     “Is that fast?”

     And they said, “Well yeah, that’s kind of fast.”

So then I wondered if I could go farther. The next day I went out and was able to run four miles and a few days later I ran five miles. For some reason there was some sort of physical or mental block about getting to three miles and once I was able to do that I was able to up the mileage without any problem. So I regularly ran six miles and eventually got a job back in Tucson in the summertime and then stopped running.

     A friend of mine in Phoenix was into hiking and wanted to hike the Grand Canyon; a rim to rim to rim hike in two days. We planned to do it the next year in June. So I thought that I should start running again to get back in shape. I got up to three miles again and that was my training for the hike. After that I didn’t have a goal so I started looking into the road races.

TA:  What was your first race?

Julie:  My first race was the 4-mile Ramp Run up and down the parking garage at the UofA. Then I entered other 5K and 10K runs. I worked up to the half-marathon and then I met Bob D. He was running with a group that included Ross and Gene.

TA:  So you met him as part of the Trail Runners?

Julie:  I met him at work; he was part of the group. I enjoyed hiking and had done a lot of the trails around here. Bob got me into trail running. My first run with the group was Mt. Wrightson in 1988.

TA:  So not a super long trail but pretty difficult at just over 10 miles. Looking at published race results it looks like one of your earliest trail races was Crown King 50K in 1992?

Julie:  That sounds about right. There’s too much information on the internet.

TA:  I know but Ultrasignup is a great source for this stuff. Usually earlier than ’95 or ’96 you can’t find results anywhere else.

Julie:  Actually my first ultra was called “Doc Holliday;” it was a 35-miler in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

TA:  Had you run close to that distance previously, like a road marathon?

Julie:  Yeah, I did the LA Marathon. I was hoping for a sub-3 hour race but I got messed up with my water intake and got a side stitch. I ended up around 3:12.

TA:  That’s pretty impressive. You must have had some other decent road times?

Julie:  My fastest 10K is 38 minutes. I’ve done a 17:55 5K. In the half-marathon I ran 1:26-27.

TA:  Wow! That was all at local races?

Julie:  That was all local stuff, so yeah, I was fairly fast.

TA:  I would say so. I don’t know what the competition was like then but I imagine you were a regular top 3 finisher?

Julie:  Oh yeah, I won a number of races depending on who entered that day.

TA:  Who were some of your competitors?

Julie:  Janet S. – now Janet H.; she always beat me though. She’s amazing.

TA:  So you’re racing off the road at “Doc Holliday” over 5 hours, what was the appeal?

Julie:  I think it’s just because I hiked before I started running and I liked being in the mountains on the trails. Running the trails was just a faster way to see more terrain. I was not an athletic child by any means. I think it was more to prove to myself that I could do something athletic now. Growing up I was very small and thin so I wasn’t very good sports material.

     When I was going to school there was no such thing as girls cross country. I think I would have been very good at that. All they had was certain track events and you know, I’m not a sprinter. So there was never any appeal for me to go into sports; it wasn’t something I was encouraged to do. When I found I could do it then it was more to prove that I could do it better.

TA:  At the time you started running the trails were there other women of comparable ability that you could run with, train with, to help push each other?

Julie:  I mostly trained with Bob at the time and Gordon N. when he was living here. I just kind of hung with them. Jennifer and Melody were running pretty well at the time. I did do runs with them too.

TA:  I’ve heard the story of how the Crown King event got started which was probably three or four years before you ran it. It was basically a very small group of people that ran up the backside of the mountain to get ready for Western States. How did you get turned onto it?

Julie:  I was just looking for another run to do, I heard about it, and decided to do it.

TA:  When you traveled to runs like this were there other women that you would see more often and recognize that you were competitive against?

Julie:  Yeah, well you were asking about other people that were competitive and I should mention Sherry; she was running trails at the time. We were kind of competitive with each other. A little later Honey started running and she is still pretty strong.

TA:  Did you have a good camaraderie?

Julie:  Yeah, but you know, they were all up in Phoenix. Thinking back, women-wise, there were not a whole lot.

TA:  While you were running with Bob what kind of advice were you getting?

Julie:  He would always say it’s not important how fast we go, it’s the amount of time we are out there on our feet.

TA:  What kind of running gear did you guys use?

Julie:  Gear was hard to figure out because we didn’t have running packs.  Pam R. was running with the Benny group and they all ran with the syrup bottles that had the handles. I remember finding a pack called the Rear Gear; it was an insulated quart-size pack that went around your waist. I can’t believe that I used to drink very little water. Gene and Ross would drink out of the creeks.

TA:  You never used the creeks?

Julie:  No, I never do that. Perhaps they have immunity to it. So it was mostly trying to figure out gear and what to eat…no gels. There were Power Bars, those things were horrible – hard as a rock. I would use granola bars, candy, orange slices.

TA:  No glucose tabs or salt…electrolytes?

Julie:  No, nothing like that, not even up to the 100-mile distance; although we did use food from the aid stations. It was easier then. I’m finding as I’m getting older it’s harder. I think something happens as you age when it comes to how you process electrolytes; something with the endocrine system. A female friend of mine that I help every year at Hardrock, she never had stomach problems, never had issues. Over the last three years she has just been taken down with stomach problems. It seems as you get older you have more stomach issues. As I’m getting older I ‘m having problems regulating my electrolytes. I never even took electrolytes in the past. It would make an interesting study.

     I remember when I did Vermont 100 in a fairly fast time; I had nothing but Power Gels. I ran the whole thing on Power Gels. It’s just weird; I tried it again at the next race and it didn’t work. You get something dialed in and think…oh this is my secret…and it doesn’t work.

TA:  It might be a matter of five degrees difference in temperature or humidity. It throws it all off.

Julie:  You ask, “What did I learn back then?” Well I learned stuff but it doesn’t mean it was always applicable to the next race. I’m constantly learning because things don’t always work you know. If you have a really stout system then maybe you can dial it in.

TA:  When was your first 100 and what convinced you that the 100 was something you wanted to continue doing?

Julie:  It was the natural step after the 50-mile distance. I always told myself that I needed to get some 50’s under my belt and take the time with the shorter distances. My first 100 was Leadville.

TA:  That’s not an easy first 100…

Julie:  It’s the elevation that takes people out of the race. If you take that course and move it to a lower elevation then it’s not a difficult course as far as 100’s go.

TA:  Living down here at the time did you do any special training to get ready for Leadville?

Julie:  I went up to Flagstaff and trained. I never really had any issues with elevation when I was hiking a lot. I hiked up to Mt. Whitney in California and places in Colorado. Leadville goes up to 12,600 feet so going up Mt. Humphrey’s near Flagstaff is pretty equivalent. It was good training, you could start down at the ski area; it was like going over Hope Pass.

TA:  You eventually finished Leadville 10 times. What did you earn for that?

Julie:  They gave me a 10-year buckle which is too big to wear.

TA:  Have you ever worn any of your buckles?

Julie:  Yeah, I wore a Wasatch buckle once; it was the buckle for going under 30 hours.

TA:  Speaking of awards, there are some pretty cool awards out there. Do you have one in particular that you really like?

Julie:  The award from Leadville when I won the women’s race and the 10-year buckle. You know I have some ties to Leadville. On my dad’s side, my great-great-grandfather was a miner in Leadville. They eventually moved down to Tombstone to mine for silver. Those ties make it a little more special that I had family that lived up there.

TA:  The year that you won Leadville, were you thinking ahead of time that you might have a chance to win or was it something totally unexpected?

Julie:  It kind of came as a surprise actually. I had run a 20-hour personal record time at Vermont 100 a month earlier. I was just trying to better my time from the previous year’s race at Leadville and it what it came down to, I was the last woman standing kind of thing. The woman ahead of me that I expected to win, (Martha S. had won the previous year) ended up having some difficulty and I passed her right before May Queen. At that time I knew I was in the lead. There was no stopping me at that point. It was funny, Rick K. was pacing me, after May Queen I just went through the aid station; he likes to graze at these things and was trying to catch up to me. His flashlight went out and I wasn’t waiting for him. At that point I didn’t know where the next woman was and I was feeling good and going for it.

TA:  Sounds like you had the adrenaline going…

Julie:  Yes. The next year I ran Western, Leadville, and Wasatch and went under 25 hours at Leadville again. I ran Wasatch with Duane; that was his finish at Wasatch.

TA:  Did you start and stay with him the entire time?

Julie:  Yes, I was entered as well. For me, that was my most special finish of any 100-mile run. He had tried to finish Wasatch for the three previous years. His whole thing was, “I’m giving up ice cream until I finish it.” So the year previous he had trouble with water. Some of the aid stations had filled the water jugs from streams. He got sick and the only thing we could attribute it to was the water at the aid stations.

     I decided to run it with him mostly to carry enough water to get us in between where our crew was; where we knew good water was. I would stay with Duane in the aid station and get him out and then run to catch up with him after I filled up the large Camelbak I was carrying. We got to mile 75 at Brighton Lodge and he was doing really well. We felt we were going to make it under the time cut-off and I didn’t fill up the pack with enough stuff for him. We got into the next station and they had very little remaining since we were in the back-of the-pack, Coke and crackers, that was it.

      Then he started bonking because he didn’t have enough to eat. We finally got into Pole Line aid station and now we had lost time and were on the edge of whether we could finish under the cut-off. We had a drop-bag there and were able to get stuff. Fred R. , who has finished Wasatch a number of times, always at the end, came into the aid station. He knows where he has to be and at what time in order to finish. Duane had already left and I was getting my stuff together.

     He said, “How’s Duane doing?’

I told him I didn’t know if we were going to make it. He had fallen behind and now is discouraged because he doesn’t think he can make it under the time.

     Fred said, “Let me see what I can do.”

He went ahead and caught up to him and then stayed with us. He encouraged Duane and kept telling him he could do it, to keep running. After awhile Duane’s not listening to me anymore.

TA:  Yeah, after almost 35 hours I’m sure.

Julie:  We’d been together for a long time; it was good to have someone fresh there who he could talk to and encourage him. Of course Duane knew where he had to be but Fred stayed with us the entire time and got him moving again. I remember we were coming in with 6 miles left.

     Fred said, “I think we have 5 minutes to spare.”

I just laughed. In my mind 5 minutes is not a whole lot of time. I was like, “Come on D-u-a-n-e!” People were driving out to see where we were. We were at the back. We got to the finish line in time for the awards ceremony so everybody was there. Everyone was lined up along the finish yelling, “Ice Cream!!”

TA:  HaHaHa!

Julie:  He finished with 14 minutes to spare. He won the ‘Spirit of Wasatch’ award.

TA:  So that counted as an official 100-mile finish for you too?

Julie:  Yes I was entered so I could go the whole way. Since I had done two already Duane asked, “Will you go ahead if I can’t finish?” I said, “Absolutely not! If you don’t finish then I don’t finish.” To me, that was my most special finish. And we’re still talking to each other.

TA:  That was 1998. Outside of your 10-year accomplishment at Leadville are there any other streaks that you have accomplished or are still pursuing?

Julie:  Yeah, I would like finish Wasatch 10 times.

TA:  What number are you at?

Julie:  I have 6 completions. I had to cancel last year due to too many commitments at work and family. The year before that I got sick before the race and had to drop out early. I had either Valley Fever or some sort of fungal infection. I went through medication to get rid of it.

TA:  How does it look for this year’s race?

Julie:  I’m entered. We’ll see how the training goes.

TA:  Well that’s the problem; it’s a September race and you have to train through the summer.

Julie:  August is tough. Humidity and I are not on very friendly terms anymore.

TA:  Looking back to the mid-90s timeframe it looks like you have a streak of several race wins around the age of 36. Did you feel like you were at your peak then?

Julie:  I think my peak was actually around the age of 40. I set a course record at the Avalon 50-mile at 40. Then I started feeling indestructible and ran Phoenix National Trail 50-mile a week later. I ended up with a stress fracture.

TA:  That was the calcaneous fracture? So you finished the race with the fracture?

Julie:  I got the fracture after that. It took awhile to get diagnosed. At first they thought it was Plantar Fasciitis. Although symptom-wise it felt good starting and then hurt later in the run; the opposite of what Plantar does. I ended up on crutches for awhile. Then since I was still having problems with it I started favoring the foot and ended up with back problems from overcompensation. I went through several years of figuring that out.

TA:  You must have some tenacity because you did a lot after that.

Julie:  I had some good years after that and then I started getting older.

TA:  Have you ever been the type to keep a training log or write things down over the years regarding your training routines and mileages?

Julie:  I wrote down what I would do over the weekends going into a 100 so I had an idea of mileage. Do you know my first Leadville I didn’t train over 40 miles per week?

TA:  Really? Actually that’s about what I average. How many miles per week were you running during your peak years?

Julie:  I would get up to 80 miles per week at the most. That was during peak training. I usually averaged around 60 miles per week. I wasn’t doing high mileage but then again I didn’t have the time.

TA:  What kind of cross-training do you find to be most effective?

Julie:  I don’t know that I found any to be very effective. I lift weights, legs and upper-body. I got in really good shape lifting when I had the stress fracture. I hired a trainer at the time. The trainer helped out especially since I had the crutches. I was also running in the pool.

TA:  Pool running, that’s the most boring thing ever. You mentioned you did some biking. Did you ever do the El Tour de Tucson?

Julie:  Yes, actually we raced El Tour a couple of times. I was biking a lot on the weekends.

TA:  Did you ride bike when you weren’t injured?

Julie:  No, except if we had decided to do El Tour. I never really liked riding. It takes too much time; time to put on all that gear and worry about tires…

TA:  My thoughts exactly; it seems to me that you have to ride the bike at least two and a half times the amount of running to get the same benefit.

Julie:  And then I’m always concerned about getting hit by a car. We got hit by a car so now I’m really paranoid. I get these flashbacks when I ride now. We were riding along and I heard the squeal of brakes behind us. It was in the evening. We had lights on and reflective vests. I heard the squeal of tires. I looked behind me and saw a car and literally…my life flashed before my eyes. We got knocked around and fortunately she didn’t run us over but pushed us along the pavement for awhile. I still flashback to that; I’m really nervous now riding in traffic.

TA:  Wow! I don’t blame you. That would take some time to get over. Let’s talk about running shoes. So much has changed over the years with shoes. Do you have a favorite pair or type of shoe?

Julie:  As long as I can remember I have always worn Asics.

TA:  You never bought into the trail shoe craze?

Julie:  No. I do have some trail shoes that I use up at Hardrock because of traction but for the most part I run in road shoes.

TA:  How about the minimal style shoe?

Julie:  No, I’m afraid that I’ll injure myself. I’m afraid of changing from what I’ve done because it works for me. With the minimal shoe you have to start out real slowly and work into it; I don’t have the patience for it. I remember talking to Joe Plassmann at La Milagrosa and thought he was running real fast in those shoes but on the downhill he was going, “Ouch!...Ouch!...Ouch!”

TA:  He did allude to having that problem on the downhill. As much time that you have spent in the mountains what has been your most frightening experience?

Julie:  I’ve had a number of mountain lion encounters. I’ve also had a bear encounter when I was by myself. The mountain lions concern me a little. I generally don’t run the trails by myself except Phoneline. I don’t go out like Gene or Kandi. I wouldn’t stand a chance against a mountain lion. Garrett talked about an encounter he had. Another trail runner years ago spoke of an encounter on the old Old Pueblo course. After that he started carrying a gun.

TA:  So you always have a training partner. I remember some time ago you and my wife Trish ran Bear Canyon Loop together.

Julie:  Yes, I remember that. We had fun.

TA:  What kind of goals do you have for the future?

Julie:  To be able to run as long as I can. It’s not about time anymore. I try not to look back; instead I focus on what I can do now. The goal now is to go out and finish it and enjoy it without suffering too much.

TA:  Do you ever do speedwork?

Julie:  I’ve never done speedwork.

TA:  Are there any trail runners that you look up to, now or in the past?

Julie:  I’m kind of out of the circuit and don’t really keep up with things currently. I admire the people that are still out there throughout the years. Gene Joseph amazes me; the longevity that he has been able to keep. The people that have proven longevity really impress me.

TA:  What do you think about all of these course records that keep getting broken around the country and the fast times that trail runners are putting up, including women?

Julie:  It’s amazing. I think some of it had to do with the economy. There are a lot of younger runners still living at home or not working so they have a lot of time to train.

TA:  Good point. You do hear about several of the enclaves in Colorado and Washington where several runners live together and it seems all they do is run and model race gear. Well that’s all I have. You are the model of longevity. Thank you for taking the time to meet with me.

Julie:  You’re welcome.